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Tennessee Turfgrass – Julie Holt, Content Director, TheTurfZone.com

The Turf Zone: Welcome to The Turf Zone. In this episode of Tennessee Turfgrass, we’re talking to Dan Johnson, Golf Course Superintendent at Jackson’s Old Hickory Country Club in Old Hickory, Tennessee. Dan, thank you for taking time to join me today. 

Dan Johnson: Thank you for having me.

TTZ: For this member spotlight, Melissa Martin wanted me to talk to you and hear about your background and what you’re doing here at the club, so let’s get started with how did you decide to become a golf course superintendent? 

DJ: I’ve been working in this industry for 23 years now. I started at age 14 weedeating and changing cups at my local country club. I grew up in upstate, northern New York. I have always done golf in some capacity from outside on the grounds to picking up range balls to working in pro shops and ultimately as I got closer to college it was 100% out on the course. I played golf for two years in college down in Louisiana and worked at a couple of clubs there. And then after Hurricane Rita I came to MTSU and finished my last two years of my business degree there. I actually played hockey for MTSU for two years, which was a lot of fun. I tried to walk on to the golf team but unfortunately didn’t make it. But I had a great time and then took an assistant superintendent job down in Dalton, Georgia at The Farm Golf Club. I worked there for four years. During that time I did the two-year online Penn State Turf degree. I’ve had the privilege to work under some really great superintendents here in Tennessee and also in Georgia. Michael Brownlee at Stone River. I worked for Michael for a year and a half, and Tim Parsons who is one of the best friends I’ve ever had. He’s a truly great super. I worked for him for a year and a half at Riverbend Country Club. Then I worked for Trey Cutshall – four really valuable years for me down in Georgia. I owe a lot to all three of those in different ways. Me growing as a professional and quite frankly, me growing up. So I’ve been here, April 15^th was ten years. I’m just incredibly blessed to be here, I’ve seen the lowest of lows and truly it’s been special to be part of something that’s on the way up. I’ve worked for some really great people here at this club, I owe a lot to the people who hired me here. Joey Hickman, the golf professional who’s no longer with us was one of the guys who hired me. But truly some really key people helped me. Another gentleman named Ron Graham, who’s also part owner at Champion’s Run down in Eagleville, Tennessee and they always seem to come up with just enough money to be moderately successful. We were always broke or struggling and then that’s where Steve and Leah Smith and their other business partner who’s now deceased, Allen Ross, bought the club three and a half years ago and really just transitioned it into something really really great. I owe a lot to the people in the years we were struggling to make it as far as we did to get to the point of having the opportunity to be purchased by some members of the club, Steve and Leah Smith own some businesses downtown Nashville. Their vision is great, it’s a process, construction is ongoing, every day year-round, so we’re always under construction and will be for a number of years to come, but that’s just how I got to Old Hickory, Tennessee. I feel really blessed to be here and want to be here a long time.

TTZ: I want to add that I don’t normally get to do my podcast interviews on-site, so thank you for inviting me. And it is really interesting to walk through this building that you shared has recently be redone  — the restaurant is beautiful and approaching the course I can see it and as little as I know about what a golf course should look like, coming it, it was a great drive in to see a lot of the course, into the clubhouse and see what you can tell is new. It’s so exciting to see things changing. I know it’s a hard process to go through that construction, but it’s kind of a gem here. It’s a beautiful property for sure.

DJ: The local, Nashville keeps growing out. This part of town has really improved, houses are being renovated left and right, businesses are going up, a lot of new housing is going up down the road. Just really, this golf course is such an integral part of this spot of town, it’s really nice to see the golf course continue to improve inside and outside and this part of town in general.

TTZ: Tell me about membership here and about the course.

DJ: It’s a really really unique membership. It was founded in 1926 by Dupont and it’s President Andrew Jackson’s piece of property. I think Dupont purchased it from one of the grandsons many years ago. It’s always been known as a blue collar, working man’s country club. The membership here, the people are great. They treat me well, they treat my staff well. There’s no uppity-ness. It’s truly a special place. When Jim Hickman, one of the guys hired me, and my first day here, he said “Welcome home.” And that was our member slogan back in the day, and it truly was, people were always treating the staff really well and it is like one giant family. Since the Smiths have taken over, our membership has continued to explode and we have a lot of unique clientele. Basically every singer, songwriter, musician in Nashville who is a golfer is a member here. Whether it’s Kid Rock, Colt Ford or Randy Houser, Cole Swindell, Jamey Johnson, and then also we get some, we’ve had a lot of famous professional golfers out here – John Daly has been out here numerous times. We had the opportunity to do some projects out on the golf course together. We built a set of new championship tee boxes and that was pretty neat to work with John who has been my favorite golfer since I was eight years old. It’s definitely, the dynamic has changed, but the attitude hasn’t changed at all because everyone is still, even with the influx of money, and has things get nicer, dues go up, and we haven’t really lost anybody and we continue to just sell memberships left and right. It’s kind of known as “the fun club.” As we continue to grow, people love coming out here and running into famous people. That’s been a big draw, it’s pretty cool.

Staff wise, I’ve got such a good group of guys. I run anywhere from ten to fifteen employees. Ten to twelve year-round, two or three seasonal. Back in the day, 2012, I remember we basically had four employees plus me, my assistant superintendent, Randy McClanahan and a technician. So we had anywhere from six to eight employees, and I just remember – as this club grows, and we put more resources into it, the crew has basically doubled. It’s a great mix. We’ve got six Guatemalan employee, one Mexican employee, and it’s been really fun over the years. I do speak, I’m not totally bilingual, but I’d call it 60/70 percent. It’s been really nice to be able to communicate with them and there’s some really great people. It’s a family over in my department too. I try to cross-train everyone. Everyone gets a different job, everyone manages different, everyone gets it done different ways. When I worked on a crew, I didn’t like doing the same thing every day. I guess part of my philosophy is that my guys know that they might be beating down, weedeating all day Monday, but then Tuesday they’re mowing fairways and Wednesday they’re mowing greens, Thursday they’re mowing tees, Friday they’re raking bunkers. That way everyone, it spreads the load on the entire crew. I take a lot of pride in that.

TTZ: We need to talk about last Friday when I called to set up our interview, you were grilling, like “It’s been a rough winter and we just need to get out here and have a family meal.” You were up and moving and cooking for the whole team – is that a common thing?

DJ: Yeah, we like to. Especially after the January and February we had. We try to do it once or twice a month where we go out to lunch or cook hamburgers and hot dogs at the shop. We’ve had some rough winters here in Tennessee in the transition zone, but truly you at least get a few nice days sprinkled in and this year it seemed, Monday through Friday was hard enough and then the weekends would be brutally cold and it just wore down me to the point that I wasn’t being a very good manager, you’ve got to keep the guys employed, keep them busy and justify everyone’s being there, so it was definitely a trying couple of—because there wasn’t those few days sprinkled in this winter. It was wet and cold and windy and just brutal every day, so now that the last three weeks have been a lot of nice days sprinkled in, everything is starting to green up and bloom I’m a lot happier. We’re starting to do some other projects now that we’re getting out of the rain hopefully. So we’re happy to get going into the season, and we got a lot accomplished this winter, all things considered. Even though it was tough. It was really just mentally exhausting with the weather beating you down. The guys are happy now and looking forward to a great year. They accomplished a lot this winter and I’m proud of all the guys.

TTZ: Is it kind of a mix of excitement of going into your busy season and also realizing it’s about to get crazy and you’re about to be working around a lot more golfers on the course?

DJ: It is. Since the pandemic and our unique clientele of having a lot of musicians, we’re busy all the time now. We went from, back in the day, doing 18,000 rounds a year to where we’re doing 28,000+. The singers and songwriters, they’ll work from like seven in the morning until one or two o’clock, so obviously they’re out here every day. There’s probably 30 or 40 of them total.    So we’ve been busy and all the construction, doing cart path work, we just built a brand new bathroom/halfway house out on the course, so landscaping it. We built a new driving range net, among other projects. So we’ve been under construction almost every day. Building stuff left and right. It’s fun, it’s a great problem to have because we’re improving. It’s not just busy work. It’s a lot. I think last week at one time I was dealing with seven different contractors. It’s all gone well and I’ve got a good crew to take care of the pieces.

TTZ: (16:28) It sounds like you’ve got a great crew that’s been with you – have you dealt with any of the labor challenges that we’re hearing consistently across the board, where it’s hard to find and keep good staff?

DJ: I am blessed that I have good retention. Crew dynamics can change but I think most of the guys on my staff have been with me between three and ten years. I have a couple newer employees who have done well to this point – we’ll see if they can thrive. The labor challenges, it’s tough, and inflation, when the pandemic hit, a lot of my employees also have second jobs, the golf course industry, it’s truly a fun industry. It’s getting better in terms of clubs are finally starting to pay people a little more to where it’s a little more attractive. But it’s tough to make living. I lot of my guys, when the pandemic hit, lost their second jobs, and it put a real crunch on them financially. Steve and Leah have been so great, have stepped up numerous occasions and have given me what I need to retain good employees. So myself and my two assistants, Randy McClanahan and Sundance Lawrence, we’ve really tried to make it – we demand a lot out of the guys, but we really want everyone to be close and feel like they’re part of something. You’ve got to get creative in ways to keep employees in this business because the pay is not that great unless you’re in one of the higher up positions. The Nashville market is flat out tough, the cost of living has exploded, as everyone knows, so really happy and blessed to have the guys I do have. Hopefully we can keep them for many many years to come.

TTZ: What makes you want to be involved and be a part of industry associations like TTA?

DJ: Melisa Martin’s first year, I believe was 5 or 6 years ago. I was the president of the Middle Tennessee GCSAA. Her and I got a chance to work really close for that first year and help each other out tremendously. You know it is important, my best friends are superintendents, sales reps, professors at the university. It’s one of the most unique industries where we are all competing as clubs, but it’s crazy how close in that I’d pretty much do anything for any other superintendent or sales rep because they’re truly some of my closest friends. Whether its giving advice or loading equipment, everyone reciprocates really well in Tennessee. TTA does a lot, we are working on, I did go on the board this year in an advisory role. One of my big passions of TN and one of the biggest benefits is the University of Tennessee turfgrass program. Countless professors, the three I work closest with are Dr. Sorochan, Dr. Horvath and Dr. Brosnan. The research assistants, the grad assistants, two key guys who are retiring, and this whole state owes so much gratitude for, Dr. Tom Samples and Dr. Alan Windham. Being here in the TN Turfgrass industry in all these meetings where we have the privilege of going and learning from these really great group of professors, it’s like you’re basically getting a free college education. It’s amazing what these guys do for each individual golf course, but the overall industry, the amount of effort and time and care that all of these different doctors at the University of Tennessee. I tell people all the time that we have at UT the best turfgrass program in the nation and there’s some really good ones. I don’t want to knock anyone else, I flat out think that UT does it better than anyone else. So I’m really passionate about doing whatever we can as TTA, MTGCSAA, ETCGSAA, MAGCSAA, helping out the university in any way that we can, and we’ve got some good ideas flowing and we need to keep them moving forward because they give us so much. We’re looking forward to seeing what we can do and continuing to raise funds for the University of Tennessee. I don’t know what all of that looks like yet, numbers-wise, but the ball is rolling and we want to do whatever we can. Getting back to Dr. Samples and Dr. Windham, they have both personally helped me so many times over the years, looking at soil samples, if I’ve got disease pressure, insect pressure, they love what they do. And both of them are two totally different personalities, but two really great guys who the whole industry is really going to miss working with them. I know we’ll continue to see them, both of them, they’re not getting out the industry, but they’re retiring. I really hope and believe that UT will eventually, when they look at filling those positions, because they’re two of the most important positions in the state. Extension agents regardless of what state you’re in, they’ve done so much for Tennessee. I look forward to eventually see who will be in their place. It’s two key positions that we really need to continue and pass the torch onto two of the next really great minds. Personally I just want to thank Dr. Samples and Dr. Windham.

Both of those guys get excited to help. It’s never a burden – I’ve taken samples to Knoxville and dealt with Dr. Samples there, I’ve taken samples over to Dr. Windham at Ellington Ag Center, and they are both so excited about what they do. All of those guys – Dr. Brosnan, Dr. Horvath – they’ve made countless site visits to Old Hickory Country Club. Anytime that there’s a problem, see something weird, we’re constantly text messaging. You know, take a picture of something that looks a little off, any thoughts? They drop everything and immediately reach out and above and beyond, I’m sure, what their job title at the University is. It truly is a good group who helps out. I’ve enjoyed getting to know all those guys over the years. They’re some really good friends.

TTZ: Let’s get philosophical. What are some changes or improvements that you hope to see in the industry over the next ten years?

DJ:  I think it comes back to – it’s getting better in terms of the payscale, but it needs to continue to go up, we need to keep paying our assistants higher wages, our technicians. My number one asset, and I’ve got two fantastic assistants and a really good – my technician Matt McClanahan is hands down is a really special, talented, unbelieveable asset to me so I want to continue to pay the key positions. But really make it to where you can make a living on the crew. And maybe someday it gets to the point where they’re not having to work second and third jobs to make ends meet. I’d like to see that. The demand for golf right now is so high, we’re slammed all the time in terms of rounds of golf and there’s going to have to be changes. It’s a blessing we’re doing so many more rounds, but you’ve got more cart usage, more wear and tear… in terms of what the next ten years look like, we just need to get better because we are growing at such a rapid pace. It’s really important to continue to treat your employees well. The cost of replacement in any business, but the turfgrass business, I feel like I’ve got about 10 guys that can do everything so it’s continuing to grow employees. If they can’t come into work and feel like they’re a part of something. As an industry we need to continue to pay our employees. People get tired of hearing that but it’s every industry right now, with inflation, it’s going to be a common theme across the board. The cost of replacement is way more.

TTZ: In time and dollars, it’s a lot.

DJ: And it takes a while to make a valuable, quality golf course employee because there’s so many different machines and so many job duties and a level of care and attention to detail, it’s easier to continue to invest in the people you’ve got than to constantly be trying to hire people cheap. Usually that comes with a bunch of headaches. Usually if you hire five, one will work out. I’d like to see each golf course continue to invest in people. Demand for golf and courses doing the rounds that we’re doing. A lot of courses turn a profit now, invest it back.

TTZ: What would be your advice for somebody who is considering entering this profession now?

DJ: It’s tough. The old school way of thinking when I was starting out was just crazy long hours, weekends, holidays. And frankly, I don’t know if the generation has changed… it seems like that’s trending in all industries. There’s no greater job on earth, I feel really lucky to be a superintendent. It comes with headaches, it comes with long hours, it comes with weekends and holidays. It’s still a service industry job, so you’ve really gotta love it, you’ve gotta love golf. Anyone can learn, some of the best people I’ve worked for over the years, some have had turf degrees, some haven’t. They’ve all been fantastic in different ways. I think you just have to be geared a little different. Most of the superintendents, friends I know, we all have very similar personalities. Seems like most of us are all type A, most of us a little bit ADD, the attention to detail, maybe that’s why we all get along so well. You’ve gotta have all of that, but ultimately, you don’t just get out of turf school and go to the top. And that’s tough because the pay on your way up, you’ve gotta be willing to be patient with yourself for a number of years because not everyone goes right from turf school to a high end assistant or superintendent job or they could go into sales, or for the chemical or fertilizer companies, Bayer and Syngenta. So you’ve gotta invest a lot of time. I’m glad I did it. There’s been times over the years where you’re just beating yourself to death with the grind and the hours. But it doesn’t have to be like that. I think times are different. Part of keeping good quality people, frankly, you can’t just beat on your employees and demand my two salaried managers… I can’t demand that they work 60, 70, 80 hours a week. That’s good, I think most clubs are starting to get better at that work/life balance. It took me a long time. Just in the last couple years have I finally – and some of that is being comfortable with your managers and your staff. I’ve been fortunate to have some more employees the last couple years. It’s different sets of challenges. You start adding more employees, more equipment, more projects and my role has changed a little bit. Just a lot moer actual management, delegating. I would recommend this business to everybody, but it’s not for everybody. You’ve got to have, I don’t want to necessarily call it a skill set, because you can learn how to do anything, but you’ve gotta love golf and it doesn’t necessarily mean working all hours of the day but it’s a different lifestyle. You’re up at 4:30 or 5:00 every day, you’re starting work at 6. It’s not for everybody, but you’ve got to love.

TTZ: This is just an observation over lots of conversations with golf course superintendents, I’m just going to make an assumption that you and I represent the same general generation of being right in the middle of old school thinking of “you just have to work 80 hours a week, it’s what you do, it’s called work ethic, get some” versus a newer generation who has different expectations, maybe of work/life balance. So we land in the middle of I get this, but I also get this, so how do I bridge the gap between the old school, work yourself into the ground and the new school, I want to also have a life. I think that’s a unique challenge.

DJ: (37:00) Yeah, it’s tough. There’s gonna be a lot of job opportunities in the next 5-10 years because there’s not as many people willing to… I’m seeing less and less kids. Some burn out, might get to the assistant level and there’s a lot of really quality assistants right here in the Nashville area. I can think of 10 right off the top of my head that could take any head superintendent job across the state. Getting that opportunity. In terms of the work/life balance, it’s changed. That old school thinking of grinding long hours, it’s not really something you can even do anymore. That’s part of the reason why I think the numbers in this business, a lot of people will have a lot of opportunities because there’s not as many people filling the roles when positions do become available.

TTZ: Let’s close with your work/life balance. What do you do when you’re not working?

DJ: I have my wife Laura, we’ve been married almost 10 years and we have two beautitful kids. My daughter Evelyn just turned four, my son Owen just turned 9 months. We love to travel when we can. Her family and we’re really close to my family so they live in Denver and her family lives in Cleveland, Tennessee. Right now, at this point in my life, having my daughter four years ago forced me to approach work here differently. I significantly lightened the load on myself. Having my daughter forced me to leave work at 3 or 4 instead of 5 or 6. That was a good thing. It makes you think, why wasn’t I doing this ten years ago? Instead of working 10, 11 hour days, why was I working 12 or 13 hour days? It wasn’t necessary, so right now all my time is devoted to my family. It’s nice that most of my best friends are all industry people here in middle Tennessee, so we get together a lot, go on a lot of golf trips. My wife and I like to travel, so to the beach with the kids and we love Nashville. More than anything, I saw the potential in this job, I saw nowhere to go but up. It was one of the really big draws, but honestly Nashville, I tell people all the time. You’ve got 10 state parks within 30 miles, two lakes, Titans, Predators, Sounds, we have a soccer team, a racetrack, Broadway, which is a blast, but the food, the music scene, everything about the city is great. My wife and I live in East Nashville, it’s a fun, eclectic part of town. I just feel like it has a lot to offer. We’ve enjoyed it. I had the opportunity to go possibly to some other clubs before I took this position, and it worked out really well. We love where we live, this has been a great club to work for. I love working for Steve and Leah Smith. All the other department heads, everyone gets along really well. It’s a fun environment, so Nashville in itself has a lot to offer and that’s one of the reasons my wife and I truly love where we live and most of my time right now, I don’t have a ton of free time since I have kids, it’s a blast. I’ve had some really good advice from other supers talking about that work/life balance. Once I had kids, it forced me to look at this job a little bit differently. My demands for my assistants, I don’t want to say that the demands went down, but my old school thinking of everyone’s gotta work insane ridiculous amount of hours is not really a reality anymore.

My assistant’s wife watches my kids. They live right across the street from the golf course so I actually bring my kids to work every morning from 5:30 to about 6:15 and then I take them to daycare. So my daughter is learning a lot of Spanish. The crew loves interacting with both kids, so that’s been pretty cool. I think it’s helping her developing some good social skills with adults. She seems to handle adult environments really well, that’s been neat. Both kids love riding around the golf course. Sometimes my daughter says hey Dad, wanna go ride, wanna go ride, wanna go hit golf balls and after a long day, as much as I love this club I don’t always want to come back after I go pick them up. But I would love both kids to get into golf. It’s offered me so many opportunities. I’ve traveled all over the world playing golf, I’ve worked all over the United States, I think five or six different country clubs I’ve been over a 23 year period.

TTZ: Thank you Dan for taking time to talk to us and for what you do for TTA.